2015 The Stamina Bug: A comprehensive study

[Dec]

The stamina bug has been a big talking point ever since FMH2015 has been released. Many fans have noted it and have pinpointed it as a bug and not down to training. If you don't know what this is or want extra reading upon the subject then please have a look at this thread. Thanks to Dirtboy's quick post I have decided to see how bad this is.

This test was conducted with the following parameters...
Device: iPhone 6
Database Large
Leagues Loaded: England (all), Spain, Germany, Italy
Clubs Managed: None

This ensures that I get a good spread of leagues and players without having myself interacting with it. This allows the test to find trends that happen in the game regardless of training, amount of games played, etc...

The Database:
Naturally the first place to start is the amount of players on the database upon recording (12th July 20XX) and how many have 10 or under stamina. Every year I noted each of the numbers to come up with a curve on how many fit into the criteria. The result was not positive at all. From 7926 players in the original database there was an absence of nearly 400 players by 2024. Along with this the players who had 10 or less stamina was going up making the lines go agonisingly closer together and not consistently far apart. The amount of low stamina players went up a shocking 1200 from 2310 to 3527 in which was a steady increase year by year and not just a jump one year due to poor evogens.
 

This meant that the rise of percentage shockingly nearly rose by double from 29% to a year on year growth to 47% in 2024. This is a massive jump and means nearly half the players are a low stamina player and not less than a third as the database has upon the start. The fact it is consistent shows there is a big problem with stamina in this aspect and it certainly lowers expectations upon stamina and makes finding roles like Box to Box Midfielders near on impossible.

 

v Pace/Strength:
While it is all well and good to compare stamina to each other but what about the other physical attributes? Do these suffer the same fate as one may assume? It appears not, while pace does drop by nearly 600 players (6%) and 271 drop in strength (1%) this is nowhere near the 18% that stamina drops by in the same time.

 

Age/Quality:
So now we have confirmed it is an isolated incident vs similar attributes is it due to the game introducing new evogens much younger or more older players occuring? 20-30 year olds are meant to be in their physical peak so one assumes this would be a lot less. While there are less in percentage to all other aged players (44% down from 47%) in 2024 it is however still up 20% which is a huge increase in just 10 years for these prime players to be suffering and meaning one out of every 3 players (or worse) have this.

But are these quality players? it is easy to say they are all lower leagues and these are the ones getting this but I need to find out if it is. In 2014 only 2 players have a value of £10m+ are have 10 or under stamina. 10 years on and this number shoots up to a huge 65 with some being valued at over £50m! These numbers are mad and show that not only are poor players being effected but the world's best are too with Barcelona, Real Madrid and Manchester United all having players with this bug in their first team. 325% more superstars have this occurring in their profiles than before. A shocking statistic to say the least!

Conclusion:
It seems pretty clear doesn't it? The bug does exist. Within the ten years time frame it is influencing nearly half of the database and nearly every 1/3 who should be on their peak aren't stamina wise. This attribute is an isolated incident against similar attributes and it isn't just against lower league players but some of the world's best too! There is an obvious issue needing to be addressed here and I hope SI Games sort it out soon.

[dirtboy]

Nice work Dec, it's really a problem.

[dirtboy]

I did a quick check on something you didn't go into, which is players with under 5 stamina.

At the start of the game there are 120 players with red stamina. 5 years in, this number almost triples to 300.

At the start of the game, there are no decent players with this kind of stamina, but 5 years in there are 12 with a value over $20m, including Toni Kroos, Jean Marc Silva and a few other players and regens.

If you had Toni Kroos, he would become almost unusable. And I can only imagine what it's like 20 years in.

[LostLegend]

2020/21 season:

Over 700

[BatiGoal]

Enjoy looking at those stats as usual Dec, and that bug is really on the map now if there was any doubt.

[rseven]

I am wondering why the player numbers come down in Dec's test.

Dec, to make the test stricter, to consider the impact of age. It is better to count the player only in age 20~30 or some other ranges.

in your test, the number of 1200 should be below parts

1. New regens(young players) with low stamina

2. Older player drops their stamina

3. Middle aged player drop their stamina by bug

It is better to find the impact of item 3.

[Ashez]

Extremely interesting yet disappointing, these tests should be done before release.

[JustM1kePlays]

Great bit of investigating Dec. Really good write up as well. Hopefully you have sent this to SI an they will take notice

[Dec]

I am wondering why the player numbers come down in Dec's test.

Dec, to make the test stricter, to consider the impact of age. It is better to count the player only in age 20~30 or some other ranges.

in your test, the number of 1200 should be below parts

1. New regens(young players) with low stamina

2. Older player drops their stamina

3. Middle aged player drop their stamina by bug

It is better to find the impact of item 3.

I did test by age too and the amount went up by 20%.

Dirt boy - it trippled on mine too with 16 players having over value of £10m and under 5 stamina. Yet originally no one is even comes close to this as highest value is £1.8m.

[PriZe]

great read Dec, but not a read that makes me happy. Just shocked by the impact. It kills the game and i sincerely hope SI will fix it soon

[vcadu92]

Interesting work, I had never focused on it

[Carlos Barreira]

I just dont have courage to play this game.... Tooo many bugs.. Im waiting they fix at least the big ones, before i restart playing it

[scass]

Well done, Dec. Brilliantly forensic as ever. In the official forum, Alari said it only happened to specific players in specific circumstances, but you've proved that to be utter nonsense. And it's not just a regen issue, or something at the start of a career with young players: I've had it on players over the first three seasons of a save, including Fischer.

Here he is in 2014:

And in in 2018:

Here's another:

I can see why they might put it in some of the more obvious evogens - Peely's study of evogens suggested that there are more than one evogen of some players. So you have to make a decision in the data as to who to buy. Or why a player who had had a really bad injury might take a long time to get back to full fitness. But it clearly isn't that when players who have had no serious injuries drop overnight.

Btw, I've also noticed leadership drop to 1 in rare occasions, but since that seems to be a meaningless stat, it's less worrying. (Ive simply used the oldest player if a regular captain isn't available, regardless of how low their leadership is, and it doesn't seem to matter.

[ajames]

I've also had leadership and aggressiveness drop right down to 1 on a few players also creativity hitting below 5 on my goalkeepers not sure how much that matters but still can't be good

[scass]

the low creativity on goalkeepers has always been there, and I don't mind that.  Better than the occasional havoc that is wreaked when they decide that David de Gea is a "sweeper keeper" - a nonsense media hype invented to describe Manuel Neuer coming out of his box once in a while. They'd be better employed putting the trequartista somewhere a trequartista actually plays (the clue is in the name, and it doesn't mean centre forward....:-)

[Keraviln]

Just as a note: I have only seen ONE player have his leadership go down to one and that was a certain Youri Tielemans. I went full panick mode when I saw the dip in "Mental" stats on the progress page and while its not a 'big' issue it should still be fixed by SI in case a 20 leadership captain gets hit by it.

[scass]

Dec, is this possibly two separate issues?  There's the fact that so many of the evogens are weaklings who can barely run the length of the field, and the incidence of players losing stamina without a serious injury to account for it?

[Dec]

Even if evogens were the cause of this then it doesn't explain the rise in this occurring in quality as well as many top players doing it for no reason. Plus the large jump at the beginning from season 1 to 2 makes me doubt this. It would have meant all evogens generated would have had this error early on.

[Quinnbo]

Obviously this bug has been well established now, but I just search for Stamina <5 and wondered if I had the record:

 

4,427 (England full, Spain, Italy and Germany) - 31st December, 2022

[Toney]

Even if evogens were the cause of this then it doesn't explain the rise in this occurring in quality as well as many top players doing it for no reason. Plus the large jump at the beginning from season 1 to 2 makes me doubt this. It would have meant all evogens generated would have had this error early on.

 

This has gotten worse than before this season.

It's been years since I noticed that half the regens respawned with very low stam (I never pointed it out because I assumed it was SI's way of adding an extra layer of chance/diffculty so we couldn't get grossly overpowered youngsters early on), but this is the first time that I actually notice my "real" players dipping so low so fast.

 

I can't believe they haven't hotfixed it yet. I haven't really played in a long time just waiting on this >.<.

[Drakul Mihawk]

Hi everyone

I apologize if I make some error writing English, it's not my first language.

I have this hateful bug too, and this is so boring.

I notice that this problem is very casual : it's not depends about training options and i hope SEGA will fix it (anyway Im not sure about this)

I'm in 2022 year and this happens 4 time: Borini,Rugani and two regens.. The curious fact all of this players had a good stamina at the begining (i don't remember exactly but i think almost 16 17). I also have noticed that more we advance in the game the this bug happens.

I play with the original game engine, not the new because it's to slow..

Could it depends about this?

I play FMH on Android, my device is a Nexus 5, running android 5.0.1 stock

I also ask : there is Any iOS user with this bug? Maybe it's Android

[BatiGoal]

I'm playing new (enhanced) engine on android and I have the same problem as you. We all got stamina bug issues on either match engine. And yes the longer the career the more apparent it becomes.

[Drakul Mihawk]

Good news!!

I sent an email to Marc (one of FM developers) for this issue.

He replied to me very quickly:

" The bug in question only affects a very small minority of players in the game,under 200 players in total

(...) it has been rectified and should be solved in the next update released"

[scass]

Good news!!

I sent an email to Marc (one of FM developers) for this issue.

He replied to me very quickly:

" The bug in question only affects a very small minority of players in the game,under 200 players in total

(...) it has been rectified and should be solved in the next update released"

They keep saying it only affects a very small number of players, and yet it keeps coming up. We're now four months into the release, and it has made certain saves unplayable. If SI had any concern for customer relations they would make the next iteration available to those who bought this version at a reduced price. But they know we'll buy it anyway.

[billy2shots]

Unfortunately SI haven't changed their opinion since this issue was first reported. They didn't think it was a big problem then and they still don't.

I looked at a 24 year save I have a couple of weeks ago. Something like 25-30% of all players were affected.

[Fozz_Quaker]

Good news!!

I sent an email to Marc (one of FM developers) for this issue.

He replied to me very quickly:

" The bug in question only affects a very small minority of players in the game,under 200 players in total

(...) it has been rectified and should be solved in the next update released"

They keep saying it only affects a very small number of players, and yet it keeps coming up. We're now four months into the release, and it has made certain saves unplayable. If SI had any concern for customer relations they would make the next iteration available to those who bought this version at a reduced price. But they know we'll buy it anyway.

I dont know how SI can claim it is only a small number affected, I have seen upto 40% of the database affected

Unfortunately SI haven't changed their opinion since this issue was first reported. They didn't think it was a big problem then and they still don't.

I looked at a 24 year save I have a couple of weeks ago. Something like 25-30% of all players were affected.

On my last long term save, I checked after 10 years and every 5 years thereafter...

After 10 years about 9% was affected, after 15 about 15% affected, after 20 it jumped to 25%, by 25 years when I got bored of the game close to 40% was affected

[Drakul Mihawk]

Good news!!

I sent an email to Marc (one of FM developers) for this issue.

He replied to me very quickly:

" The bug in question only affects a very small minority of players in the game,under 200 players in total

(...) it has been rectified and should be solved in the next update released"

They keep saying it only affects a very small number of players, and yet it keeps coming up. We're now four months into the release, and it has made certain saves unplayable. If SI had any concern for customer relations they would make the next iteration available to those who bought this version at a reduced price. But they know we'll buy it anyway.

I dont know how SI can claim it is only a small number affected, I have seen upto 40% of the database affected

Unfortunately SI haven't changed their opinion since this issue was first reported. They didn't think it was a big problem then and they still don't.

I looked at a 24 year save I have a couple of weeks ago. Something like 25-30% of all players were affected.

On my last long term save, I checked after 10 years and every 5 years thereafter...

After 10 years about 9% was affected, after 15 about 15% affected, after 20 it jumped to 25%, by 25 years when I got bored of the game close to 40% was affected

I know i know.. Anyway 200 players isn't a

small minority!!

Hope this bug get fixed as soon as possibile :/ 4 me is so sad paying a game 10 euros and can't play with it

[Fozz_Quaker]

Good news!!

I sent an email to Marc (one of FM developers) for this issue.

He replied to me very quickly:

" The bug in question only affects a very small minority of players in the game,under 200 players in total

(...) it has been rectified and should be solved in the next update released"

They keep saying it only affects a very small number of players, and yet it keeps coming up. We're now four months into the release, and it has made certain saves unplayable. If SI had any concern for customer relations they would make the next iteration available to those who bought this version at a reduced price. But they know we'll buy it anyway.

I dont know how SI can claim it is only a small number affected, I have seen upto 40% of the database affected

Unfortunately SI haven't changed their opinion since this issue was first reported. They didn't think it was a big problem then and they still don't.

I looked at a 24 year save I have a couple of weeks ago. Something like 25-30% of all players were affected.

On my last long term save, I checked after 10 years and every 5 years thereafter...

After 10 years about 9% was affected, after 15 about 15% affected, after 20 it jumped to 25%, by 25 years when I got bored of the game close to 40% was affected

I know i know.. Anyway 200 players isn't a

small minority!!

Hope this bug get fixed as soon as possibile :/ 4 me is so sad paying a game 10 euros and can't play with it

200 players at the start of a save is nothing, about 2% in my Scottish Game...

When SI are saying it only affects a minority of around 200, are they trying to say 200 all the way through the game or is it more likely they mean 200 affected intially and every regen that sprouts up from them through the game...

It annoys the hell out of me at times, I just get on with it and plod on through the game

[scass]

 

 

 

 

Good news!!

I sent an email to Marc (one of FM developers) for this issue.

He replied to me very quickly:

" The bug in question only affects a very small minority of players in the game,under 200 players in total

(...) it has been rectified and should be solved in the next update released"

They keep saying it only affects a very small number of players, and yet it keeps coming up. We're now four months into the release, and it has made certain saves unplayable. If SI had any concern for customer relations they would make the next iteration available to those who bought this version at a reduced price. But they know we'll buy it anyway.

I dont know how SI can claim it is only a small number affected, I have seen upto 40% of the database affected

Unfortunately SI haven't changed their opinion since this issue was first reported. They didn't think it was a big problem then and they still don't.

I looked at a 24 year save I have a couple of weeks ago. Something like 25-30% of all players were affected.

On my last long term save, I checked after 10 years and every 5 years thereafter...

After 10 years about 9% was affected, after 15 about 15% affected, after 20 it jumped to 25%, by 25 years when I got bored of the game close to 40% was affected

I know i know.. Anyway 200 players isn't a

small minority!!

Hope this bug get fixed as soon as possibile :/ 4 me is so sad paying a game 10 euros and can't play with it

200 players at the start of a save is nothing, about 2% in my Scottish Game...

When SI are saying it only affects a minority of around 200, are they trying to say 200 all the way through the game or is it more likely they mean 200 affected intially and every regen that sprouts up from them through the game...

It annoys the hell out of me at times, I just get on with it and plod on through the game

 

I still maintain there are two issues here - there's the high number of evogens who turn up with unplayable stamina, most of whom don't improve. Then there are players who simply lose stamina for no apparent reason - I had a number during an Ajax save including Fischer,Nouri, Vadala, who all decreased in stamina dramatically. When I moved to another club from Ajax, I noticed that even more players had suffered stamina drops.

[Nath]

They released an update and it didn't fix anything to do with the stamina bug.. even though its been apparent for a long time that there is an issue here. 

 

We've established it can't be just a small minority of players as I've seen high stamina players fall to the 6-8 range over the course of a few weeks..